1972 Scott Specialized (MNH not listed in this catalog):
C13 $125.00 mint / $87.50 used
C14 $200.00 mint / $125.00 used
C15 $325.00 mint / $220.00 used
1990 Scott Specialized (MNH not listed in this catalog):
C13 $250.00 mint / $200.00 used
C14 $700.00 mint / $450.00 used
C15 $1050.00 mint / $600.00 used
2008 Scott Specialized
C13 $250.00 mint / $160.00 used ... MNH $425
C14 $525.00 mint / $375.00 used ... MNH $900
C15 $750.00 mint / $575.00 used ... MNH $1275
2011 Scott Specialized
C13 $210.00 mint / $165.00 used ... MNH $375
C14 $460.00 mint / $375.00 used ... MNH $800
C15 $600.00 mint / $600.00 used ... MNH $1150
2016 Scott Specialized
C13 $180.00 mint / $165.00 used ... MNH $275
C14 $400.00 mint / $375.00 used ... MNH $650
C15 $575.00 mint / $600.00 used ... MNH $975
Lars
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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."
Here's a table of the data so far. Allowing for the value of the dollar, looks like anyone who picked up the set in the mid-1970s or later has had zero or negative appreciation. MNH C15 might be a little bit ahead.
Interestingly, from 2008 to 2017, a used set has gone UP in price by $30 (a 2.7% increase), while MH has gone DOWN $385 (a 25% decrease) and MNH has dropped $950 (a whopping 37% decrease)!
By contrast C3 from 2008 to 2016 has held steady at $70 MH and $35 used, although MNH has dropped from $150 to $140.
Lars
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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."
If memory serves 1988 would be the peak year for these, as well as most stamps. We used the 1988 catalog for quite some time because of what we thought were drastic reductions in the catalog value being out of touch with reality (wishful thinking).
Perhaps someone else can verify that during that brief time period in the mid 80's VFNH Zepps fetched in the $8000 to $10000 range. Didn't last long and quick turnaround was the key to making money on both the up and down sides of that lofty figure.
I find that some stamps (like C13-C15, 630 is similar) that seem to be very prevalent (available from many sellers) but command a premium. You cannot easily find some more less expensive stamps.
The truth is within and only you can reveal it 29 May 2017 08:33:15pm
re: C13-C15 Zeppelins
Webpaper, Right you are. It would be nice to see the values from a 1987 or 1988 catalog as those should show the highest relevant values. Hopefully someone has one of those cats and will share those values with us.
I thought I'd throw my two cents worth in. Looking at values in older Scotts require that the inflation factor be considered. I used the inflation calculator to adjust all of the values that were mentioned so far and I think that this may bring everything into perspective. Values from the 80's may really be shocking, By the way, C3 did decrease in value as did any stamps that showed steady prices over the years. Values are in 2017 US dollars.
Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't 30 May 2017 08:59:21am
re: C13-C15 Zeppelins
I was surprised with the relative lack of movement for the ‘internet years’. Most collectibles saw significant value movement when the internet allowed collectors to easily connect with each other; I would have expected a large drop in catalog values for the period of 2000 to present.
Don
"I am sure the C13-C15 was a speculator buy meaning it was bought by non-collectors and now the market is correcting itself for this."
During that brief period when Zepps were in the $8-10K range for the most part the only people buying them were the speculators. They wandered from one table to the next asking only if you had a set of Zeppelins .... the regular customers for the most part stayed the course purchasing material that was familiar to them. A lot of new collectors entered the hobby during the mid 80's and floor traffic was always brisk...
Also Yvert & Tellier 2005:
(Mint / Used, in euros)
13: 300 / 300
14: 750 / 500
15: 1000 / 900
and Michel 2007:
(Mint / Used, in euros)
(C13): 250 / 180
(C14): 500 / 380
(C15): 850 / 650
and Michel 2015:
(Mint / Used, in euros)
(C13): 300 / 200
(C14): 550 / 400
(C15): 950 / 700
Surprising conclusion: contrary to what is usually thought, the valuation in the "domestic" specialized catalogue is lower than in foreign ones. Most of the time this is the other way around because of the higher demand.
A possible explanation is that a. Zeppelin stamps are popular worldwide and b. the USA Zeppelin stamps are especially iconic and a "must have" for every serious collector, just like for instance the Penny Black.
Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't 30 May 2017 12:14:06pm
re: C13-C15 Zeppelins
Updated with additional years, all values adjusted for inflation to 2016 dollars. The 1979 values are spiking due to inflation, would love to see some 1980s catalog values if anyone has them.
Don
Correction perhaps needed for 1987 in values in graph above:
1987
Scott Standard Postage Stamp Catalogue
USA
C13 Mint $350. Used $250. -- which are different from values in table above
C14 Mint $800. Used $550.
C15 Mint $1,300. Used $800.
With the used values, it makes me wonder who actually did soak those off covers. I've seen ones for sale with corners of the stamped cachets on them. Can you imagine the person who ripped up flown covers... I don't collect covers but I need used ones to fill the spots in my album...
I bought mine on flown cover. Cheaper than mint and much more historic and interesting!
They may be at record lows, however accounting for the 50% haircut that Scott catalog values took in the 80's to adjust to actual retail values rather than the fantasy values they had before, that may not be the real record. Note, some catalogs still carry that 100% markup - Michel for example. Thankfully Scott cut it despite complaints from the dealers.
Yes, but you should note that Michel catalogue prices are not the same as actual selling prices. Most dealers who use Michel sell at a discount of 50% or more. Perhaps not that often for this type of stamps, but nevertheless.
That is exactly my point. Scott at some point had the same methodology, not using selling prices. At some point, the CVs were revised to reflect actual retail value, so the 50% calculation was not required.
And yet some were paying in the $8 thousand range in the 80's..i hope they could afford it !David i have prices for chuck steak and gasoline from 1972 when my kids were small !
If anyone has a set or singles available for trade (cat.val. for cat.val.) give me a shout. My area is generally the U.S.Classics period, but I would be interested in adding the Zeps if available.
Dan C.
Since we're doing show and tell...
Here's mine! I said earlier in the thread that actual flown covers were cheaper than mint stamps and much more interesting. So these covers represent the series in my collection. I bought each of them separate, and waited until the right cover came along at the right price. There were many I lost to higher bidders too!
I also have a zepp cover collection that fills a 1-inch 3-ring binder, but none franked with C13-C15. I do have C13 and C14 on piece, however.
I'm curious about the postal history of your 3 covers.
From Wikipedia:
"The 1930 Pan-American Flight...originated in Friedrichshafen on 18 May and stopped first in Seville before leaving Europe. The Graf Zeppelin arrived in Brazil first at Recife (Pernambuco) docking at Campo do Jiquiá on 22 May where it was greeted by a crowd of more than 15,000 before preceding on to Rio de Janeiro. The airship then flew back north to Lakehurst, NJ, before heading east over the Atlantic on 2 June to return to Germany with another stop in Seville."
Your 65c cover shows a Freidrichshafen receiver cancel of June 6, seeming to document a transit time in the range of 4 days, including the stop in Seville. Can you make out the date of the Brooklyn cancellation?
Your $1.30 cover is cancelled at Varick Station on the date of departure, June 2 (12 noon?) Cool!
However, your $2.60 cover is cancelled way back in April, suggesting that the sender was anticipating the flight, perhaps based on some announcement of the planning for it.
By the way, there is a marvelous video on YouTube documenting this (or a similar flight) of the Graf Zeppelin to South America. It's called "Flying Down to Rio" (1932) by Pathe News. It's a little hokey for its newsreel genre, but consists of remarkable, clear footage, nonetheless...
Here are the values (Scott default is for VF 80) from the 2014 and 2018 Scott US Specialized catalogues. Note how the GRADING changes the catalogue values (only 2014 included).