In the Scott Catalog the only difference between a 131 and a 177 is that of the watermark. The catalog says that some of the 177's have the watermark in blue, but some are not. How can you tell which catalog number it would be if the WM was not blue. It could be a 131 or a 177 I suppose.
This design has the globe with the diagonal lines on it.
Scott 131 is a normal stamp with regular watermark.
Scott 177 is on unwatermarked paper and has a printed watermark on the back which is usually in blue although some copies are printed in black and some are noted as colorless.
As to the original question identification is easy - the 177 has a PRINTED star and NZ on the back - printed in ink, just like the front. It is on unwatermarked paper.
If you want to know all of the different varieties you need to get a Stanley Gibbons catalog. There are several different paper types; several different gum varieties; regular, inverted, reversed and "inverted and reversed" watermark varieties, 4 or 5 different colors,etc.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy.. 29 Aug 2016 09:56:08am
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Gibbons published a Commonwealth catalog that is available used and will be most helpful with varieties of issues. Since in this case you are discussing 100 year old issues a spanking new set is not needed as the essential info does not change every year very much.
You can find such volumes on eBay or at stamp shows at a great discount.
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
It has Great Britain and all the colonies. At some point in time SG played with catalog numbers so while you will know what you are looking for the catalog number will not be the same as in the current SG catalog.
If you want a newer one you are looking for "Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1952." Mine is a 2004 Edition which I paid aroung $25 for - most are in the $40 range but the are indispensable for British stamps. It covers Great Britain and all of the colonies. New it will set you back over $100 - unless there is some compelling reason you don't need new.
BTW - it appears ebay search engine has gone nuts again so you may need to wait until it's fixed ......
OK so then why did they have a separate New Zealand catalog? What other information does the NZ one have that the one you mentioned in your post does not have? Please clarify.
They have a separate catalog to make money. A bit unfair perhaps, but I went to the SG website and here is what they say in their description of the New Zealand catalog.
"The listings for issues up to 1970 have been extracted from the 2014 edition of the Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1970. Later issues have been revised and updated especially for this volume."
So it would appear that if you are concentration on issues prior to 1970 there is no additional information provided over what is shown in the Commonwealth catalog (which includes Great Britain and all of the Commonwealth countries). A complete set of Gibbons specialized volumes would probably total into 4 figures.
The SG New Zealand catalogue also includes Nauru, Cook Islands and Aitutaki among others. The SG Simplified catalogue ( 1 volume Commonwealth and 3 volumes rest of the world ) is useless for anyone other than a "face different" collector. A real NZ specialist will go for the "Campbell-Patterson" catalogue which makes the Gibbons NZ specialised look simplified!
If you collect older stamps it should be noted that collections put together by specialised collectors will have the good stamps identified ( or often removed prior to sale! ). However collections put together by non-specialists without access to good information very occasionally include the odd gem. Additionally collections formed in the country of the stamp's origin seldom have good stuff included - owing to the collector naturally having more experience of his own country's stamps (even beginners)
Yes well I looked at the price of the "Campbell-Patterson" catalog and it's $120. That's a little too expensive for me in light of where I am in collecting New Zealand right now. Maybe at some point I will splurge.
Just to clarify something mentioned above, the SG New Zealand catalogue includes pre-independence NIUE (not NAURU, which is included in the SG Australia Catalogue).
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy.. 16 Oct 2016 11:40:17pm
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
" .... Would the watermark on New Zealand # 177 look like this? ...."
If you mean SG 177, yes. I think so . it should also have a compound perforation 12½ x 10 or some variation thereof.
If you are talking Scott, then I have no idea.
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "